The problem stems entirely from a lack of a standard basis from which the "rules" can be said to derive. I covered it tangentially in my latest article: https://theflammifer.substack.com/p/examining-the-decline-of-christianity - but to elaborate on it here, the massive rise in the age of marriage (it is now an average of almost 30 for first marriages!) means people are staying single for far longer, which has made premarital sex considerably more acceptable. Once that happened, the perceived "need" and "value" of marriage declined precipitously. That, combined with the high divorce rate, has thoroughly destroyed the value of marriage on the men's side of things, while women have become increasingly promiscuous - an increasing pool of women sleeping around with the top 10% of dudes on Tinder, then reaching 30 and wondering why they are still single. The problem is, now, any given date or approach for a date, can be operating under a dozen different perspectives - is this a one night stand, a short term relationship, testing the waters for a long term relationship, etc.? Is a "no" a flirty "ask me again" no or a firm no-means-no? And getting it wrong, especially as a man (who is still expected to make the first move!), can mean expulsion from university or loss of a job. Long-term, this is untenable and new norms will have to emerge and be standardized on eventually, but in the meantime the situation is a complete mess. I don't have a solution, but it's clear that any real solution requires bringing the average age of marriage down - which requires doing something about the universities and the inability for early-career people to date in the workplace. You can't get married if you can't date.
I agree completely. The dating scene wasn't fantastic when I was in college, but being part of an LDS subculture made it so much clearer and simpler, and resulted in or resulted from a much lower average marriage age too. I was 25, my wife 22. I was considered kind of old to be getting married in my circle of friends.
Good advice. On the last one, women have to strike a balance between giving men time to prove themselves and catching them while they're still single.
The problem stems entirely from a lack of a standard basis from which the "rules" can be said to derive. I covered it tangentially in my latest article: https://theflammifer.substack.com/p/examining-the-decline-of-christianity - but to elaborate on it here, the massive rise in the age of marriage (it is now an average of almost 30 for first marriages!) means people are staying single for far longer, which has made premarital sex considerably more acceptable. Once that happened, the perceived "need" and "value" of marriage declined precipitously. That, combined with the high divorce rate, has thoroughly destroyed the value of marriage on the men's side of things, while women have become increasingly promiscuous - an increasing pool of women sleeping around with the top 10% of dudes on Tinder, then reaching 30 and wondering why they are still single. The problem is, now, any given date or approach for a date, can be operating under a dozen different perspectives - is this a one night stand, a short term relationship, testing the waters for a long term relationship, etc.? Is a "no" a flirty "ask me again" no or a firm no-means-no? And getting it wrong, especially as a man (who is still expected to make the first move!), can mean expulsion from university or loss of a job. Long-term, this is untenable and new norms will have to emerge and be standardized on eventually, but in the meantime the situation is a complete mess. I don't have a solution, but it's clear that any real solution requires bringing the average age of marriage down - which requires doing something about the universities and the inability for early-career people to date in the workplace. You can't get married if you can't date.
I agree completely. The dating scene wasn't fantastic when I was in college, but being part of an LDS subculture made it so much clearer and simpler, and resulted in or resulted from a much lower average marriage age too. I was 25, my wife 22. I was considered kind of old to be getting married in my circle of friends.
This was good - thanks for creating.
Excellent analysis. I'm printing this one out. (I have two boys, 11 and 9, and a girl, 4.)
Thank you, I'm glad you'll find this useful! Be prepared for eyes rolls or giggles.